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Transcript of Interview with Ryan Lee

INTRODUCTION

Dan: Welcome to another episode of Shoulders of Titans. This is Dan Lok, and today I have the privilege of bringing you a best-selling author and authority in the fitness industry; the world’s leading expert on membership sites, someone I’ve known for a long time now, and we’re actually in the same mastermind group together; Mr Ryan Lee. Ryan, welcome to the show.

Ryan: Woo! That’s all I’m going to say the whole time, “Woo!” We’re getting on the shoulders. Dan, my shoulders are broad, come on on board my friend.

Dan: Yes, yes, and one thing about Ryan– you see, he has a ton of energy? Like, I’ve seen a lot of speakers, but man Ryan, I think I have high energy, but man, Ryan just has– he’s like an energizer bunny.

Ryan: I appreciate that, thank you.

WHERE DID YOU START?

Dan: Ryan maybe tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into what you do today.

Ryan: Sure, I started like just about everyone here listening. I was a recreational therapist in a children’s rehab hospital, because I know that’s the typical route, right? That was my first job, it was working with kids. My background– I was basically a play therapist, and I did adaptive aquatics. So, I worked with kids with all different disabilities; everything from spinal cord injuries to Spinal Bifida to cerebral palsy. You name it, I worked with them. Mostly sports and fitness, but I did recreation.

And on the side, I was a personal trainer, and I trained mostly athletes, because that was my background; I was an athlete in college and I ran track, and I was captain of my track team in college, and I loved it. I just love training. I actually like working with young athletes, and kids in general. So, about the end of 1998, early 1999– so Dan, you were around, we’ve known of each other for like 20 years. I mean, you were around then too.

So, this was at the early stages, and I’m not a techie, so I was trying to build a website. I was using a program called FrontPage98, which you probably remember.

Dan: FrontPage, yes.

Ryan: I couldn’t get that damn thing working. So I gave my neighbor Jonathon, he’s 12 years old at the time, I gave him $20. I said, “Just help me get this on.” and that’s when domain names cost $70, remember that? And that was– for me, I was living in my parent’s basement– and that was a lot of money! So, we got this site up, and all I did was write articles about sports training. This was before YouTube, before video, before Facebook; you could barely even put pictures on, because everyone had dialup. You know the old [sound effects].

So, I just started writing articles about speed training, about strength and conditioning, and it just started taking off. I started getting emails. I’ll never forget, like after a week I got an email from a guy in Japan asking me training questions. Again, this was 20 years ago, so this was unheard of. And I just started– Dan, I was like, “Well let me sell some stuff.” So, I started actually selling training equipment. I found a company and they would just drop ship for me, so that was great. And then I started getting emails from people, “Hey, could you design a training program for me?” And I would charge– I think at that time maybe it was like $90, and I would design a training program.

So, I kind of messed around for a couple of years, made a little money, lost a little money, kind of played. It wasn’t really generating anything significant. I won’t get too much into this story, but fast forward a few years; I’m working as a gym teacher in the south Bronx, and I’m like, “I’ve got to get serious about this.” Now we’re in 2001, and I took all this content that I’d been creating for years and I said, “You know what? Now you’ve got to pay.” So now it’s going to be a paid membership. So, I put it all behind a pay wall, and I hired a college kid, I think I gave him like $100. I said, “Just password protect this.” I used ClickBank. It was very early on in ClickBank’s world. And I think I charged– at that time it was like $47 for the year. Because of course everything has to end in a seven. And immediately we got like, I don’t know, maybe it was 300 members in the first 40 hours. I’m, “Oh my god.” I’d never seen that much money before, in one time. That was more than I was making per month as a gym teacher. And it just kept growing and growing, and I told my wife, we didn’t have any kids at the time, “If I can do this consistently for six months, make more than I’m making as a gym teacher– if I leave the job and do this full time, imagine how much I can make.” And my goal at the time was: if I could just make a hundred thousand dollars a year, I’m happy. That was it, I never got into this thing to teach marketing, to be rich, any of that. I just wanted to have a good life.

And my wife and I were talking about having kids. So, I left in 2002, and here I am now, 15 years later, doing this full time. It’s transitioned over the years, because I went from teaching online fitness and strength and conditioning, to other fitness professionals saying, “Well Ryan, if you can do this, and you’re an idiot, then can you teach me?” Like, absolutely I can teach you how to build! This is fun! And then it started growing, and I started getting asked to speak on marketing stages. Like my friend Yanik Silver– this was like 10 years ago– said, “Hey Ryan, why don’t you come and talk about membership sites?” He said, “You built it in fitness, you didn’t build it in marketing.” I said, “Of course!” And I went on, and at the end of the talk I was jumped. People couldn’t get enough of this. So now I’m more known as teaching other people, not only membership sites, but really, what I call lifestyle entrepreneurship, which is about building your business around your lifestyle, because I still do this full time. My wife and I now have four children. My oldest, believe it or not, is a teenager. How old are your kids?

Dan: I don’t have kids, I just got married two years ago.

Ryan: Congratulations!

Dan: Thank you. Thank you.

Ryan: But you’ll see, time flies. Time absolutely flies. So now I just– you said I’m energized– I just love talking about marketing, entrepreneurship, lifestyle entrepreneurship, selling without selling out your soul, without being cheesy or hypey. Because you’ve know me Dan, I’ve never been into that style. For God’s sake, I worked in a children’s hospital. The stuff didn’t feel right to me. So, I’m just enjoying life and I truly love what I do, and now here I am, at the pinnacle, with Mr DL. On the DL. I’m keeping it on the DL with Mr. DL.
[laughter]

So here I am. And I’m ready to just answer whatever questions you have. If I don’t know the answer I’m just going to make some shit up, so just–

Dan: That sounds good. And I have to say, at the time, I myself bought Ryan’s program on membership, with a big manual. At the time I think it was like DVDs, yes, it was the DVDs. You guys remember those.

Ryan: Oh, god.

Dan: No online courses, no DVDs, I have it still, for my library. And actually, I used a lot of Ryan’s strategies to launch, at the time, my own membership site on website conversion and things like that. So, I always admired his work.

So, I’m curious Ryan. From having one membership site, and that transitions into training, teaching, becoming a more thought leader for the industry, and then a thought leader in digital marketing; throughout that period of time, what are some of the lessons that you have learned, and some of the things you wished you’d do more, or wish you’ve never done?

COMMON MISTAKES MADE DURING SET-UP

Ryan: That’s a great question. God, I’ve learned so many lessons. I will say– you know, some big lessons, some big lessons that I think are common mistakes people make are: number one, make sure not to give away your equity too quickly, and don’t be so anxious to partner up, and it happens a lot. You go to a conference, you meet another person, another man or woman, and they are very similar to you; they have big ideas, and you’re like, “Oh, let’s just partner up.” And you both partner up. And the problem is you’re both visionaries, you’re both starters, and it just doesn’t work, because there has to be someone driving it, there has to be someone doing the day to day.

And especially, the biggest mistake is giving a piece of your business to tech people. To say, “Well I don’t have any money, so I’m going to have this guy build a membership site for me, but to save me money I’m just going to give him 50%.” Which sounds great, because you’re saving money at the beginning, but it’s not that great two years from now if it’s bringing $30,000 a month and they are literally doing nothing for $15,000, and half your income is going away. You won’t be happy.

So; being careful about giving up equity and partnering– you’re much better off doing it yourself and hiring. And especially, another lesson I learned is: there’s a lot of things with business where people get wrapped up in the ego. So, for example I live in a town called New Canaan in Connecticut. And all of my friends are multi-millionaires, I’m truly not exaggerating. Look up New Canaan in Connecticut; it’s known as all the head fund guys and investment bankers and celebrities. I mean, I’m like the poor guy at Lock, and I’m doing fine. There’s the whole thing; it’s like, “How many people do you have in your business? How big is it? Where’s your office?” and they can’t understand, “What do you mean you work from a coffee shop? What do you mean your employees are all over the world?”

For some reason people think that in order to be successful you have to look successful, and you have to have this traditional office with all this stuff. Overhead is a killer, and it’s not what you make, it’s what you keep, and I made that mistake. For years, I thought I had to do it big, and I got this big suite and I had employees there, and I was miserable. I hated seeing the money go out. I ended up dealing with the, “Oh this person said this.” I’m like, “God I’m not a– I just want to help my clients, I don’t want to deal with this!”

So just keep your overhead as low as possible. If that purchase is not going to bring in more revenue, don’t do it. For years, I got by with– my desk was one of those folding tables you get at Costco for $35, and you know what? I loved it, because it didn’t have drawers, I didn’t have to worry about my papers getting lost, and it was fine. I didn’t need a $3000 mahogany Italian imported desk. It didn’t make me any money.

One of my cousins had a successful real estate company and he made the mistake of opening up a second office too soon. Had the $3000 paintings on the wall, and when the real estate market kind of corrected, he lost it all. So overhead– so these are just kind of bigger concepts on– I’m sure people have heard this stuff before.

WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILLS IN YOUR INDUSTRY?

Dan: And Ryan, do you find that with– when you are running the membership site, and that’s in the fitness industry, and then transitioned to a thought leader, and then transitioned to teaching digital marketing; during that period of time, what are some of the new skills that you found that you had to develop?

Ryan: I would say the number one skill you need to succeed online, or as you say, a thought leader, expert, author, whatever you want to call it, number one skill: you’ve got to be a good communicator. You have to be a good communicator. And it can be, whether it’s on video or audio, or even just writing. Maybe you have no desire to be on camera, or do podcast interviews, or any of that, but you’re a really good writer, okay. Play to your strengths.

So, you’ve got to be a good communicator, and if you’re not, do whatever you can to be. I don’t care if you join toastmasters, I don’t care if you get your family around the fireplace. You have to be able to get on stage and communicate, and not only that; when I’ve seen the transition happening from old school marketing, to the hypey headlines, you know, “Who else wants to?” “They laughed when I sat down to play the piano.” and all that stuff. So, some of that stuff still does work, but now the big thing is just about being real. I know it’s a buzzword, but being authentic, and just being honest, like, just tell the truth. And it feels so good to just tell the truth. Like, not lie about fake scarcity and say, “Hey, we only have five more e-books.” No, you don’t, idiot, it’s a pdf file! You have unlimited e-books, we’re not dumb!

The whole idea of: your market’s dumb– no they’re not, they’re really not. And over the years, you’ve seen all markets become more sophisticated, and they understand, they see the tricks. Come on man, if there was a free event and it has the word ‘wealth’ in it, you’re going to be pitched, and you’re going to be pitched hard. And if you don’t know that, you got some issues. And for the people that don’t know that– I feel bad for the people that go there, and they get sucked in, and the guys like, “Well, can you open up a second credit card.” And it really pisses me off– I know I’ve kind of gotten away from your question. So you got to be a good communicator.

And I think because everything online, especially online, has become so much more competitive. Every industry, every market– like when I first started, I was the first guy in ClickBank in the sports training market. Now there’s probably a thousand pages of listings. It used to be one guy teaching how to play guitar online. Now there’s probably a hundred. So you have to be really, really good. I’m not saying you have to be Eddie Van Halen, and if you’re not good, you have to find a hook. There has to be a reason for people to like you, and follow you, and trust you, and you got to deliver. The days of just skating by and doing the least amount of effort, just putting up something that’s just good enough, it’s not good enough anymore, it just isn’t. People expect more, and you have to get your offer to the point where people look at it and are like, “How do I not do this.” Like with Freedym, the whole idea was that we want to become the Netflix of online business, of lifestyle entrepreneurship, so people see this and are like, “My god a buck? For a buck for a day? How do I not do this?”

THE EVOLUTION OF MEMBERSHIP SITES

Dan: That’s actually a great transition, because I wanted to ask you about Freedym as well. Because over the years you’ve built different membership sites, right? Recurring, monthly; is it a sequential delivery, or do you give them all access? It has changed over the years. How do you see membership has evolved over the years?

Ryan: Well, years ago it was more about– and it’s funny, because I’m almost going to be going against what I say, but hear me out for a sec– it used to be, years ago when you come on it was just purely about volume, not quality. Just because, it wasn’t like there was all this information online. I mean, there was a lot, but it was really about getting people on and having them drink from a fire hose. The content wasn’t organised, there was no structure to it, it was just like: here’s a bunch of stuff, have at it. And the more stuff you gave, the more they liked it. Then I think it got to the point where people were overwhelmed. And like, “My god, it’s too much stuff.” So, I think now the trend is a little bit more about give them– just answer their questions. Be really, really specific. The old days of e-fitness and e-diets and these big broad things– some of them can work, but it’s much tougher. You’re much, much better off having a niche membership site. Instead of health and fitness for everyone; okay, we’re just fitness for pregnant mums, or we are strength and conditioning for baseball players, or we are not just rock lessons, we teach you acoustic guitar, and hey, we just teach– we’re the membership site for rock bassists. So, narrowing it down and instead of trying to give so much, make it high quality.

Now, again with Freedym, what I kind of tried to do was; I wanted to have a membership that people stood up and the reaction is, “Holy crap.” That’s what I wanted, and the idea was to do something that none of my competitors would ever do, because I know, in general, people in the quote unquote internet marketing space are lazy. Like, they’re on one thing, they’re off to the next, they have zero attention. They can’t even launch– the minute they’re launch, they’re done, they don’t even want to think about it.

I said, “I’m going to play the long game, and I’m going to do something where we put out a new training every single day.” Now it can be overwhelming, but we really try hard in the messaging; when people come in, “Hey, we are just like Netflix.” Just like in Netflix, you can’t watch every movie and every show, it’s not humanly possible, you can spend the rest of your life, you can’t do it. You don’t have millions and millions of hours. So, the idea is, “Hey, we’re Freedym, we have all the training you’re ever going to need. If you feel like learning about traffic, here’s all our Facebook traffic. If you want to learn about re-targeting, here’s an article. If you want to learn about membership sites, here’s seven programs we’ve done.” So, it’s like a Chinese buffet; you don’t eat everything. Or a Vegas buffet; you don’t have lobster, and steak, and eggs, and bacon, and ham. You do but you’d probably throw up. It’s like, you pick and choose. So, I’m going against myself a little bit, but that was our positioning of it. But I’d say in general, the advice I give for most people is: get really, really narrow with your membership, and you’re better off delivering less and better. So maybe it’s one big update a week, instead of trying to do five things a week.

People, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the market, and if you are– so Dan, name any market, any market in the world.

Dan: Let’s say the diet. Lose weight.

Ryan: Okay. For who specifically? Let’s narrow it down.

Dan: Let’s say for stay home mum.

PUT YOURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF YOUR MARKET

Ryan: Stay at home mum. So, first thing you have to do is: instead of thinking of you, and saying, “Well, I want to charge $9.95, or I want a $27 a month membership,” let’s put ourselves in the shoes of the stay at home mum. What does her day look like? How much time does she really have? What is it like now? Because now, childhood is different. Like I have four kids. When I was a kid, my mum would just let us out, and we would play in the neighborhood until about six, seven o’clock until it would get dark, and she would literally yell out the door, “Ryan, dinner,” and I’d come home. Now with our kids, every one of them is in travel: travel hockey, travel baseball, travel tennis– I mean, literally we go until 8:30, 9:00 every night running around like maniacs. I hate it, but it just is what it is, it’s what everyone does, but I really don’t like it. But anyway: so how busy are these mums? Do they have an hour a day to sit down and watch your content? Do they really want a webinar? Do they really want to sit down and go through a course on how to lose weight? No! What do they want? Give me the damn recipe. Do a little 5-minute video on how to cook this dinner for four kids, or three kids, or one kid. Or show me a workout I can do in five minutes, right before I have to give the kids a bath. The real, real stuff. Because most people Dan– for some reason we think everything has to be a damn course. Oh, got to create a course on–

Dan: 50 videos and 12 pdfs, right?

Ryan: I know a lot of stay at home mums. A lot in New Canaan. None of them want to go through a course, not one. I just think of my wife; she’s not going through a course; she doesn’t have time. So, I think when you develop it and run it based on reality, you start to– wow, you have a mind shift. And you become so obsessed with your market, with your members, and the big word I use, and I use this a lot, is service. You’ve got to set up your business to serve them. That’s your job, you have to serve them. And when you come from a place of service, and I know it sounds woo woo and touchy feely, but it’s true. People, your members, will feel it, and when they feel it, they feel good and they stay.

Dan: And you feel good.

CREATE A BRAND YOU CAN BE PROUD OF

Ryan: Hell yea. I am so damn proud of my site. Most people aren’t proud of their site. So, our site is called Freedym, spelt with a ‘y’, my kids love it. They did– there was an Independence Day theme or something in school, and my kids were like, “Daddy look, I wrote on the things, ‘fireworks’ and I wrote ‘freedym’ and I spelt it with a ‘y’ and I told my teacher why, and I was like that you have a membership site and you help people, it’s called Freedym.” Like, if my thing was called ‘internet income machine, how to make a million dollars’– [laughter]

Dan: Two seconds of push button cash.com

Ryan: Yes, I’d be mortified! And again, you can make money both ways, but to feel good about it, I love it. Even right now I’m wearing a shirt that says ‘Freedym’ and I’m friggin’ proud, and you’ve got to be proud of what you do, because if you’re not proud, you’re really not going to market it to the best of your ability. You’re going to be looking for tactics, you’re going to be looking for plugins. I think much bigger than that. And when people feel good, and they smile when they think of you and your company and your brand, they stick around, and retention is the name of the game. That’s it. Because you’re going to work your butt off to get someone in and paying and committing; if they don’t stick around, you don’t have your membership site, you don’t have that recurring revenue that you want.

Dan: And one of the reasons I resonate a lot with Ryan is: we both were quote unquote in the internet marketing guru world; I don’t know what is the best way to describe that. And we both got out of that–

Ryan: The douche world.

STEPPING OUT OF THE DOUCHE WORLD

Dan: Yea, let’s just call it the douche world, and actually, let’s talk a little bit about that. We joke about it, we laugh about it, but what is that, and why you got out? And maybe I’ll share my perspective as well.

Ryan: It became, like I said from the beginning, and I’m not lying: this was never about money and becoming a millionaire. It wasn’t about that. It was about helping people and having fun and doing what I love doing. And as I became a little bit more involved in this world, and I was asked to speak on all these stages, I started to become someone I wasn’t. My marketing started to become hypey. I was saying things I shouldn’t be doing. I was endorsing products more on commission than whether it was really good or not. And then I started getting into the world where someone would promote me, then I had to– in that world it’s called reciprocate– and they would say, “Well, you owe me.”

Dan: You do a launch, I do a launch, kind of back and forth like that.

Ryan: Oh, man you’ve got to promote their product. And I remember a guy, I’m not going to say his name, a well-known guy promoted me, made some sales and then it was time, you know, time, like I owed him, like I’m in the fricken mafia. And he said, “Can you promote this?” And I look at it and the damn thing was broken. Like, it was literally this plugin and it didn’t work. He was like, “Dude I supported you.” And I’m like “Dude it doesn’t work.” He’s like, “Oh man, I told people I was going to promote you and they said ‘Don’t support Ryan, because he doesn’t promote others.’” And I’m like, “I can’t promote you if it doesn’t” — So, I’m like, “This is ridiculous.”

I tell you, I had one of those– and even though I’m Jewish– it was like a ‘come to Jesus’ moment. I’m about to get on stage, very big marketing event, there were like 700, 800 people in the audience, and the event producer comes over to me right before I get on stage. I’m getting pumped, I can’t wait to deliver, and he gets on stage– cos I was going to pitch a product– and he looks me dead in the eyes, and he goes, “Ryan, you have one job and one job only,” and he pauses and I think he’s going to say, “You’ve got to kick ass, you’ve got to teach them, you got to–“

Dan: “You’ve got to inspire them, yes.”

Ryan: These were his words, and I’ll never forget this. He goes, “Your job is to extract as much money from everyone in that room.” And I just felt this, like, “What did you just say?” Like, extract? How far off the rails has my life gone, where now my job is to extract money from people? Like, that is just, the whole wording, the phrasing, the connotation, the idea of extracting money from people who don’t want to let their money go. It feels like manipulation. And from then on, that was the turning point. Then I’m like, “Alright, things need to change.”

So, I started to look at what I’m doing, how I’m doing it; looking at myself, looking at my customers, looking at my products. Then I gradually started to make the– and it was a process, like it wasn’t overnight I just quit. But it was a process. It took me a good two or three years of changing and moving and shifting to say, “Look, this is me. I’m comfortable being me. I’m comfortable not playing the game, not doing the launches, not following the bullshit.” Like, just going on my own pack, and proving that you could make money by truly being a good person and just doing the right thing and treating people well. And that’s all I’ve been doing. And it feels good. But that was behind the scenes. And you know it Dan, there were a lot of people on stage saying stuff, making up numbers and fake testimonials and they’re so full of crap.

One more really quick story. I was going to have this guy speak at one of my events, and then I hear one guy says, “You can’t have that guy speak, he’s the biggest scam artist in the world.” And I’m like, “Really?” So, then I’m having lunch with the guy, and I’m talking to him, and he’s telling me about this product for eBay that he has. And he said, “Yea it does this and it scrapes this info.” And I said, “Yea, but isn’t that against eBay terms? Won’t people lose their account?” He goes, “Yea, but you know, the product’s only $100.” I’m like, “But what do you mean? It’s illegal and people could lose their accounts!” And he goes, “Yea but it’s only like $100, it’s not a big deal.” I’m like, “Alright.” It was all these little– and this guy was 100% serious. So, there’s a lot of things wrong with that world.

BEING AUTHENTIC

Dan: I agree. But I think now with social media and everything, you can see, even people who are in the quote unquote marketing, IM, or business opportunity world or niche. Like you said, a lot of the bullshit, all that, it just doesn’t work, because people see through the hype, they check you out. And before– remember people using fake names on ClickBand, and selling this deal and that book, or that membership or whatever it is, a lot of– people now, they want to see the authentic, real you. They want to see longevity, they want to see your value right, not just hype.

Ryan: The good and the bad, right? Because it’s not about being perfect. Just be real, and if something goes great, great, and if it doesn’t, then tell them that too. And stop with the fake scarcity, stop with the, “Oh we closed it down, its closing tomorrow closing tomorrow.” It closes, and then the next day, “We got so many emails that people missed it, it’s open for another 24 hours.” You lose all of that credibility, and that’s short term thinking. Will it make you maybe a little bit more money in the short term? Yes. There probably will be a few people who you got off the fence who just bought. But the rest of the people are like, “Man this guy is full of crap.” And it’s all about integrity, it really is.

Dan: And you and I know, a lot of those guys, even back in those days– a lot of them are gone.

Ryan: They are all gone. I’m not going to say names, but there were a bunch of people– I truly– it’s really sad, I don’t know if they’re alive. You go to their Facebook page and it hasn’t been updated since 2012. I’m like, are they alive? You know, god I have so many stories. But almost all of them thought short term. The people that I knew, that I was on stages with, that actually cared and delivered value, and were innovative, like Yanik Silver, are still around. The people who are not: the old school hard-core internet marketing, “I’m going to screw you as much as I can,” are gone. There’s maybe a couple left barely hanging on just because their name, but even that, they probably just scraping by with like, “Hey just pay me $50 and I’ll do the whole funnel for you.” Something like that.

Dan: And I think it’s a difference between, they just want to make some money, or trying to build a long-term business here, right?

Ryan: Yea, and long term is where it’s at. You’ve got to think long term.

CREATING YOUR BRAND

Dan: And one thing I love about you, when you shared at the Mastermind group about Freedym, how you were talking about that you spent a lot of money on the graphics. You know, sometimes coming from the old-school marketing, ugly sells just keep it simple.

Ryan: Ugly sells, yeah.

Dan: But you’re like, no. Look at the graphics, and you do make it like Netflix, kind of movie like and make it interesting, that branding aspect of it. So, what’s your own brand? That would be interesting.

Ryan: Well, I think first of all, I’m not into the old-school branding. I’m not into branding where you have to spend a million dollars on billboards and super bowl ads. I’m talking about the kind of purposeful branding, where, what’s that thing? Where, if there was ten of Dan’s customers in a room, and you weren’t there Dan, what would they say about you? If I say, “Dan Lok” what would they say? “Oh, he’s a good guy,” or “He’s smart,” or “It’s about, he’s all about memberships,” or “He’s all about” — whatever that thing is, that’s your brand. And whatever that is– so that’s kind of like the feeling of the brand. And you have to be consistent with that. So, whatever your thing is: do that, be that, whatever that story is. But then there’s the other stuff what people think is branding; just the colors and the logo. Now that’s important.

I think what’s most important for that branding– well obviously, the look, the font, the colors, to be purposeful with that, to make sure it matches the feeling you want. So, if you are really a high-end brand, if you want to be like Tiffany’s. Then maybe your colors, your look, your font, should reflect that. But then have that colour and that feeling and that look consistent throughout. And some people, they get these cheap logos, they go to Fiver and they get these– that they look like it was done by a fourth grader, and they have these big stupid icons with trees and it’s so specific with the icon. It’s awful. Or they have the generic ones where it’s like these cheesy personal development ones where it’s a silhouette of a person with their arms in the air, or like the swooshy kind of thing.

I’m like, just make it simple, make it you, and have that brand throughout. But again, it’s got to be about consistency, and you always have to be on message.
What I talk a lot about is, you almost have to think of yourself as– and this is going to sound arrogant, I don’t mean to sound arrogant– you almost have to think of yourself like a super hero. And a super hero has a back story. So, what’s your back story? So not only if people were in a room what would they say about Dan, what would they say about Ryan Lee, what they’d probably say about me is, “Ryan’s got four kids, he used to be a gym teacher, and he works from coffee shops.” So, that’s kind of like my brand. So, when I write emails, that common thread is throughout. And I’m a humble guy, and I don’t show off my wealth, and if all of a sudden I start doing videos where I’m some douche in front of a couple of Ferrari s with a couple women on my side–

Dan: He sees my Lamborghini, you mean?

Ryan: I’m not mentioning names. That’s that person’s brand, and that’s their thing, and I’m not judging. If that’s you, then that’s you, and that’s your brand and that’s fine. But then be consistent. Like, if all of a sudden I came out with that, and “Oh here I am getting on a private jet.” they’d be like, “Who is this jerk? So I’m not saying your brand is right or wrong, as long as it’s true to you, and as long as you’re consistent throughout, then you’re good. But you’ve got to stick with it. And also, just like a superhero, you evolve. And when people know you, like you, trust you– as human beings we always evolve. When I first started– I have people Dan, believe it or not, who have been on my list this entire time, since 99, so they’ve been with me 18 years. They were first on my list. I was in my late 20s, I had just gotten married– actually no that was before I got married, I got married in 2000. So, I was in my late 20s, not yet married and no kids. Until now: I’m going to be 45 soon, I’ve been married 17 years and I have four kids. They’ve seen the evolution. They’ve gone along with me.

So don’t feel like if you pick this niche, this market, to start with, you’re going to be there forever. Because you can evolve, and as long as you’re truthful with people, as long as they like you, they’ll go along for the ride. I had people who first found out about me because all I taught was fitness. Then I started talking about business. Well, “I trust Ryan with fitness, let’s hear what he has to say about business.” So it’s okay to evolve, as long as you’re being honest and truthful and sincere about your journey. You’d be shocked at how many people will evolve with you.

BEING CONGRUENT WITH YOUR BRAND

Dan: And I think, Ryan, what makes your personal brand powerful also is congruent with what your audience, what your clients want. Because you dress casual, you work from a coffee shop, your a father, an entrepreneur, you’re lifestyle driven, and you have the freedom, you have the choices. And that’s what your audience wants to learn from you, about that, right? If suddenly you’re dressing in suits and you’re in a big office, with a lot of employees, that’s incongruent with your message, right?

Ryan: You’re exactly right Dan. And I think sometimes people try to pretend they’re something that they’re not, and I will tell you this: to pretend, and to be someone you’re not, and something you’re not, it’s exhausting. It takes a lot of effort, a lot of energy and you have to remember your lies. Here’s the greatest thing about telling the truth: you don’t have to remember anything.

Dan: That’s right.

Ryan: It’s very freeing just to be completely transparent. But it has to be congruent with you. If all of a sudden I’m wearing a suit and I’m in the private jet, my core audience would be like, “Who is this a-hole?”

Dan: What’s going on?

Ryan: If I change, and I become like that, and if it’s a gradual change, and people are coming along, and I’m like, “Look, now I’m in my 50s and 60s, now I’m going to start talking about getting private equity, doing deals” —

Dan: Retirement.

Ryan: Yea, “Hey I just bought a 15-million-dollar business,” then that’s a different story. Now, I don’t see myself going that way, because that’s just not me, but if you are and you — then that’s fine as long as it’s you. Then you can’t go back to say, “Hey, I’m just a family guy.” Then people will be like, “This guy, this girl is full of crap.” And the minute they start doubting your sincerity, then you’re done and they’re onto the next person.

THE IMPORTANCE OF LISTS

Dan: What about in terms of internet marketing? Before we had with google and search engine optimization and PPC, affiliate marketing and all those things we do, but now evolved of course social media. What do you think is working now, and what advice would you give to someone? Let’s say they have a business; it could be e-commerce, it could be a membership site, whatever they’re selling online. How to scale that business to the next level?

Ryan: I would say, the one thing that I’ve never stopped doing, for 17, 18 years, and I never will stop, it’s still relying on building your list. Because your list is still your most valuable asset. And I don’t care how big social media gets, I don’t care if you have a billion followers on Facebook, nothing is going to outperform your list, especially if you want to sell stuff. So, number one, in terms of fundamentals– it’s like basketball, you can’t be good if you can’t dribble the damn ball, or shoot the damn ball– so, you have to have the fundamentals. List building is still it. And I look at all the traffic channels, whether it’s Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, or whatever the flavor of the month is. As long as you’re using that to drive people to your list, where you can truly engage, that’s everything. And don’t be afraid to email them and tell engaging stories.

It’s not just about selling. That’s the big thing, in terms of what the big trend is: what we’re looking at doing more and more is live, and right now, as of today, the platform is Facebook Live. It was Periscope, it was Meerkat, and these things come and go, and right now there’s no doubting that Facebook is the 800-pound gorilla. So, I would say the more live stuff you can do, the more engagement you can get, the more people see you’re real, and the more people see you actually know your stuff, you know your craft, the more it’s going to separate yourself from the fakers. Like, if you’re a competitor who teaches guitar and you’re not that good, and you’re on there and you’re teaching the acoustic and you’re like [sound effects] and you’re doing it live, like “Hey I’m taking requests,” and you’re doing that stuff, and “Hey I’m going to teach you how to play it, check out this link and you can sign up for a list, and I’ll give you all of these chords I’ve just created.” Like, that’s real. And in terms of like a specific tactic, doing a Facebook Live, if you nail it, even if it’s a five, ten-minute thing, then turning that into an ad, those are working really well.

KEEPING IN TOUCH WITH YOUR COMMUNITY

Dan: Ryan, I know this would shock our listeners here. How often do you email your list?

Ryan: Ha ha ha. You mean how often do I connect with my friends?

Dan: Yes.

Ryan: Pretty much every day. Usually at least six times a week, sometimes seven. Now, if it was pitch, pitch, pitch, no content, no educational entertainment, it’d be stupid, I’d have every unsubscribe. Do I get unsubscribes? Absolutely. But I always start off the email with something personal: a story, I give a teaching lesson, I get some specific tactics, and then I do a soft sell. So, “Hey, if you want to learn more we have a whole six-hour training we’ve just uploaded about Facebook ads in Freedym, click here to try it. Click here to give it a try and if you don’t, that’s cool too.” It’s not, “Hurry up, it’s going away, offer ends at 9.” It’s none of that crap.

And it’s trying different promos and different angles and different hooks and different content. But yea, I don’t look at it as copywriting or even marketing. It’s really– and I’ve said this phrase for a while, and people have been quoting me on it–, stop writing like a copywriter and start communicating like a friend, and when you do that, you’d be shocked at the results. Everyone I’ve taught this system to, I have a whole program called One Email a Day, that their businesses are transformed. Not only do people not unsubscribe, they’re emailing them and say, “Oh my god, I haven’t heard from you in two days, where are you, I miss your stuff.” That’s where you want to get to. Where people look forward to your emails.

Dan: Why are people so afraid of emailing their list often? Like people say, “Oh if I email them every day they’ll be pissed off.”

Ryan: Yea, they’re scared. Because they’re thinking like a copywriter, they’re thinking like a sales person, and they’re thinking, “They’re going to get annoyed if I sell them every day.” And they will. And that was the old way of doing marketing. You get them on your list and you keep mailing them until they either buy or unsubscribe, and that’s a terrible way to think about it. I take my time; it’s a friendship, it’s a communication. So, I email every day but I’m not hitting them with a hammer.

So I think people assume that if they’re on the list you’ve got to hammer them, and then people get nervous, like, “What am I going to talk about?” And I have one piece of advice: here’s a great piece of advice to find stuff to talk about: live. Like, live. Get out of your house. Talk to people. Engage with people. If you go into the store talk to the shopkeeper, talk to a stranger on the street, talk to your family. Get your head out of the phone for a little while and do things. Travel, go to a different– you know, if you work for yourself, I work from coffee shops, go to a different coffee shop, meet a new person, go into a new store. The stories that come out are amazing, and a teaching lesson in just about everything. So I think those are a few reasons why.

And people are nervous, and they’re just like, “Well what if they don’t like me?” We all have a fear of being rejected. You know what? Get the hell over it, not everyone’s going to like you, and if everyone likes you it means your message is probably a little bit too vanilla, and you’re not going to really be able to market effectively anyway. I’m not saying you have to be a jerk. The big trend in marketing now, it seems to be with guys you’ve got to grow a beard and yell at people, and curse and flip the bird, and be this aggressive alpha guy. That’s not me. I just want to enjoy it and smile and be a family guy.

Dan: And again, what we’re saying is, that character appeals to a certain audience.

Ryan: Right! Exactly.

Dan: You appeal to a certain audience. It’s all different.

Ryan: Yea. You know the same people who are buying– the 21-year-old who’s buying the guy in front of the Ferrari with the two hot chicks, and “I’m going to teach you how to make a million dollars in a month!” They’re not my audience.

Dan: And you don’t want them to be your audience.

Ryan: And I’m not even sure– and someone’s like, “Wouldn’t you want that guy mailing for you?? And I’m like, “No because it’s not my audience.” Because you can’t be everything to everybody. And here’s an exercise I do when people are unsure of their market, or going between two different markets, I give them this little exercise. I say “Ok, imagine right now you have a workshop going on. You have a hundred people in the room. Who is in the room right now? Who do you want to talk to? Who do you want to interact with?” And that gives them instant clarity. Right away they’re like, “Oh, well I’d want entrepreneurs” or “I’d want 50-year-old men”, or “I’d want housewives”. Whatever that is, but it gives you that clarity because it makes it real. It’s just that little ‘boom’, oh okay, that’s who I’m going to serve.

And look if a 20-year-old is looking to do it ethically and honestly, and treat people with respect, come on in. But if you want to do it for the Ferrari, and pick up chicks and all that cheesy materialistic crap, I’m not your guy. And that’s cool, go find the other guy. Because if I try to appeal to them, then I’m alienating my core audience. Which are people mostly 30s, 40s maybe even 50s, some successful people. They’ve had successful businesses and they’re looking to just either create some side income. or have a new online business where they can spend more time with their family.

Dan: Just gaining more freedom right.

Ryan: Exactly, freedom with a ‘y’ baby. Exactly. I never made the promises of overnight millions.

CREATING A DAY TO DAY ROUTINE

Dan: Now, Ryan what about– I’m curious with your personal routine. What is your work day like? I know it’s very, very interesting. Like you say you have four kids, a lot of responsibility? Like how many hours you work, what’s your day look like?

Ryan: First I spend a good three to four hours just staring at myself in the mirror. That’s the way you start. Just kidding. [laughter]

Dan: I like that.

Ryan: You’re like, “What?” So, all four of our kids, they all get up at different times, because they’re in different grades. So the local coffee shop I always work from opens at 7:00 in the morning. So, I like to wake up– I’m an early guy– so my kids are usually up at 6, I’m up at 6 in the morning. So I make them breakfast or I make them lunch and I’m out of the house at 7. I get to the coffee shop by like 7:03, it’s right down the street, it’s the greatest commute in the world. And by the way, a little tip is: you’ve got to find the environment that works for you. I used to have an office and I hated it. I find that being in a coffee shop; the smells, the sounds, it just invigorates me.

So I sit down, and the first thing I do is write my daily email. I just sit, and it’s always in real time. So I’m like, “Ok, what am I going to talk about today? What am I going to communicate about?” And I write my email. And it might take 15 minutes, it might take an hour, but I give myself until about 8 and the email’s out. We have a virtual team: I have my right-hand man Matt, who’s our integrator, who basically is doing all the day to day with Freedym, and running the traffic, and we do our morning huddle. It’s about 10 minutes every morning. And we always start off with: what was the good news? What happened yesterday? What were the big successes, the big wins? And then we talk about what have we got going on for the day and the next couple of days. And I get a little, “Hey, we had 35 new members yesterday and we lost one,” whatever that thing is. And then I usually work in about two one hour– and after that every morning I always talk to my Dad.

We always do a little five minute– just, I chat with my Dad. My mum passed away about six or seven years ago and that was– every day my Dad and I talk, every single day. So, that’s important for me, it always grounds me and he’s like a sounding board and it just kind of centers me. And then until about– so from like eight to ten I’ll work 20 minutes, 30 minutes, because I’m a sprinter. I work hard, then I’ll take a little break. And it could be– its whatever my most important things are; so maybe it’s outlining the next training product, or maybe it’s a new marketing, front-end thing we’re going to do, or program or reaching out to three or four important partners, or talking to someone who is going to interview me for a podcast, or sales copy it’s the–

Dan: High value activities.

Ryan: High value, yes. It’s not just answering emails. It’s the stuff like, how do I log in all the stuff goes to my assistant. Then I’ll usually head home around 11 o clock, take me between 10:30, 11:00. Have a light lunch, relax for about an hour, I just need some time off because I’ve been working for, you know, three four hours straight. I’ll have lunch, sometimes I’ll do a little quick workout then too, and then from noon until 3:30 is really my flex time. That’s usually when I do what I want. So about three or four times a week I’ll get reflexology. I was diagnosed with an auto-immune disorder when all that crap was going on. Between losing my mum, I lost my father in law, both to cancer, everything was falling apart and I got this autoimmune disorder. So, this thing helps, getting this reflexology, and that’s my like relaxation– I get my best ideas when I’m just zoning out when they’re rubbing my feet. It’s the greatest thing in the world. And then the afternoons are like, if I’ll do coaching calls with members, or if I’m interviewed on a podcast, or if I’m interviewing someone or I’m recording a training, and that’s my recording time. And I’m always done by 3:30.

Except for you I made the exception, because you only could have done it later. But 99.9% of my time I’m done by 3:30 and then it’s all kids. I’ve coached baseball, I’ve coached lacrosse, it’s driving my kids to gymnastics or soccer or hockey or baseball.

You know, I’m kind of helping out my wife, and sometimes I’m home watching the kids while she’s out. But it’s kids from 3:30 until whenever. Couple a times a week until 8, 8:30, and you know, I’m just with my family. And then when they go to sleep, they’re in bed by 8:30 or so. My wife and I can relax. I always have a little time, I need an hour at night, like my Netflix time. I sit my butt– and you know, I sit my butt on the couch and I just watch a show. And I think everyone now in the whole marketing world– business, everything’s about: dude you’ve got to hustle. If you’re not hustling you’re dying, if you’re not 24/7– I’m going to outwork you, I’m working while your sleeping. You know what? Knock yourself out my friend.

Because, first of all, there’s only a certain amount of hours you can be truly productive, and I need that time off and there’s nothing wrong with that. See, I put in a good day’s work. I don’t work 15 hours. I don’t work a ton of hours, but I work smart. And if you do that, it’s okay. Now, if you use an excuse and you watch eight hours of Netflix a day, and then you complain you have no time, then you’re full of crap. But don’t feel guilty, I can’t stand when these guys make you feel guilty for taking a little time off. Like, and that happens, everyone burns out because they think that you have to work 24 hours a day and you don’t. You don’t! What the heck’s the point anyway?

WHAT DO YOU REALLY WANT?

Dan: I think we go through phases too. Like when you’re young and stuff, both Ryan and I we’ve hustled, we’ve put in the hours. But later on, once you’ve built to a certain point, then you know what? Now you have people, you have a team, you have more systems in place. Now it’s more about, I don’t want to use the word balance, but you can take some time off; it’s about enjoying life right.

Ryan: Right absolutely. And I often ask this question. Like, I’ll have a client– I had one, she was making like $15,000 a month. She’s like, “I have the greatest life.” She’s a foster mum. She’s like, “I only work a couple of hours a day, I do what I want, I want to do this stuff.” But yet when I first sat down, I said, “Well, what do you want?” And she said, “I want to scale.” And I’m like, “Well, on a scale of 1-10 how happy are you?” She’s like, “Oh I’m like a 9.5, 10.” I said, “What the hell do you want to– like everything’s great! You’re making more than enough money, you’re paying bills, you’re putting money away, you’re enjoying life. Why do you have to scale?”

You got to ask yourself why. Now, okay you make a little more money, but you have less time with your kids, so is it worth it> And everyone has their priorities. If your priority is to become like, we’ve all heard of Gary Vaynerchuk; he wants to become a billionaire and buy the jets, okay, that’s his thing. But if that’s not your thing then don’t be Gary. You got to do what makes you feel right and feels good in your soul. And everyone’s’ different and motivated by different things. But don’t think if you’re not hustling all day to try become a billionaire, that there’s something wrong with you, because there’s not. I have no desire.

Dan: And I think sometimes it’s the young guys, they are watching Gary V, they are watching different people. Sometimes it could be the insecurity or the low self-esteem or lack of direction. They see someone like that and say, “Oh, I admire that guy, I should be like that guy I should think like that guy; I should eat like that guy.”

Ryan: Exactly.

Dan: But we’re saying be yourself. Be your best self.

Ryan: Be yourself, yea. The whole idea of people trying to clone me or be like me, or be like fanboys, that frightens me. I don’t want that. Don’t be me, be you. That makes people talk about ethical cult building. I don’t want that at all. That really makes me uncomfortable. Be you. You could model some of the stuff I’m doing; the techniques, the tactics and strategies the business plans, the productivity tips, but don’t be me. Don’t start dressing like me and try to have four kids like me, that’s just creepy.

Dan: Ryan you have four kids, I’m having four kids.

Ryan: Yea, “I only have three, and my wife is sixty, but we’re going to have that fourth, I’m going to try.”

Dan: Imagine if they name it the same.

Ryan: Yeah, “We named our kid Ryan Lee.” And then I’m going to start getting restraining orders. So, but I truly love helping people, and I love when I can change their lives. But yes, just be you and see what resonates with you. I get it, when you’re young– and when I was in my 20s I worked 18 hours a day between working full time and putting myself through graduate school and training clients. I totally get it. But everyone, when they start getting older and they start getting in their 30s, especially, there’s something about once you hit that 40 milestone, and things start to change, and your grandparents are all gone, and your parents are now in their 70s and 80s, and your parents are passing away. You start looking like, what am I really doing? What’s most important? And that’s usually when people start come to me like, “I need more freedom.” Like, “I need to do more stuff that’s going to have more impact and it’s not just about the fancy cars.”

FINDING MENTORS

Dan: Yeah, I agree. And we’re going to wrap this up pretty soon. Just a couple more questions. Now Ryan, I’m curious. A lot of people, they look up to you, you are the teacher, right? You are the expert. Who do you learn from and what do you learn, where do you go to get training? In terms of business education and everything else.

Ryan: It’s funny, I get asked that question a lot, surprisingly. They’ll say, “Who is your mentor.” I’ve never had one mentor. And you know why? Because when I started to learn more and more about some of these, and I’m just saying guys, cos it was mostly men teaching that stuff, especially 20, 25 years ago, you didn’t see a lot of women teaching.

Dan: Now there’s more women for sure.

Ryan: Now there’s more women, for sure, there’s a whole slew of them. A lot of them are starting to sound the same though, they’re all talking about: “Be you, personal branding” and it’s kind of fluffy. But that’s a subject for another story. The best marketer I know, one of them, is Jenny Thompson, who’s just unreal.

But anyway, I would see these guys and they looked miserable, and you’d hear their story and they’re like, “Yea, I’m on my third wife, and my two kids don’t talk to me.” And it’s just, they look unhappy, and I’m like, alright it looks like they’re doing well financially but I don’t want to be them in twenty years, that looks like an awful life. They’re always travelling, they look exhausted, they’re divorced three or four times, and I’m not judging, shit happens, but I didn’t want to model my life after them.

So, I studied the marketing tactics from a lot of these guys, from all of these different guys. And I’m not saying anyone in particular, so whoever it was, I remember buying the cassette tapes from Jay Abraham, just like, man, a light bulb went off. And when I’ve gotten to know Jay– I remember we were on stage together, I was on this Titan’s event and it was me and all these legends with Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy and Gary Bencivenga and me. It was bizarre, and then I made a point, and Jay Abraham texted me and said, “I love that point you made.” I’m like, “Oh my god.” But I learned from Jay, I learned from Dan Kennedy, from Ted Nicholas early in my career. Just a lot of the direct marketers I learned the marketing from. And in terms of just how to treat people, honestly my dad is my biggest influence. He used to own a yarn store, and he was so good with his customers, and the old ladies loved him. He was so nice and engaging and funny, and he always went out of his way to treat people well.

And I just learned that from him. He’s like, “You’ve always got to do the right thing, you always have to be good to people.” So, I’ve tried to always have that at my centre, learning from my Dad, treating people really well, and being fun and engaging and smiling and laughing and making people laugh. Because he’s like that, he’s a real funny guy. That coupled with the direct marketing stuff was really what I did. And I never really engaged with one particular marketing person or guru or expert, it was just always: I like this guy who came up with headlines, and I like this thing, and I just kind of made it my own.

Dan: I agree, it’s just basically we learn from everybody, and be a good student too, right?

Ryan: Right, and just my word of caution is: just be careful who you follow, because if you follow them too much, good or bad, you’re becoming like them.

Dan: We have to ask ourselves, do you want to be like them?

Ryan: Do you want to be known as a cranky curmudgeon? Not me. But you know, to each their own. But again, I’m not judging, whatever makes you happy, works for you, then do that.

THE IMPORTANCE OF A SUPPORTIVE SPOUSE

Dan: I agree. I’m curious with– you share a little bit of the ups and downs in life and in business. During that time, how important is your wife? Like being there for you and supporting you.

Ryan: Oh, my god, everything. And it was to the point where I was– during the phase where I was quote unquote trying to act like the guru, and I was travelling a lot, and when you travel and you roll in those circles, you stay out until 2, 3 o’ clock in the morning, and you get drunk, and you act like an a-hole. And I was playing the role, I was becoming someone I’m not. And my marketing was getting dark, and I was cursing and I’m like, “Man, this isn’t me, I want to fumble but not like this.” And it was affecting my marriage, and I’m like, “We got to stop, I just can’t do this.” So, I go to my wife for tons of support and advice and she’s been right by my side.

I mean we started dating in college, so she knew me before I was– whatever it means to be Ryan Lee– before anyone knew me. When I was a no name working at a children’s hospital as a therapist. Because I even said to her, as we were dating in college, “I’m getting this degree, I’m going to work in a children’s hospital. We’re never going to be rich. We’re never going to be millionaires, we’re never going to make that much, so I just want– you have an out now.” And she’s like, “I don’t care.” So, I’m like: I have to do whatever I can to keep her, and to keep her happy, and there’s the old ‘happy wife happy life.’ Truer words were never said, so I always try to– every time I feel like I’m getting away from my purpose, like I’ve got to– she centers me too, and calls me on my own BS. so it’s great to have her.

Dan: Same, same here. Definitely. I wouldn’t be who I am without my wife, without that support. That spouse is so critical. Because sometimes people see us and say, “Oh we’re the guy on stage with teaching..” no, no, no, no, when we get home we’re just husbands, just a guy.

Ryan: Oh, my god. I’d remember like if I would travel, I’d be away for two days, I’d come home– we have four little kids, and she’s like, “Your turn.” I’m like, “I was just speaking in front of 2000 people. They were chanting, they were giving me standing ovations.” She’s like, “Your turn.” Which just totally centers you. Even the other day she’s like, “Ryan there’s a clogged toilet, here’s the plunger.” I’m like, okay, you know? It brings me down to earth, and I need that, and I always want to stay humble. And she’s the one I trust too. Like, if I have an idea she’ll tell me right away, she’ll be like, I hate it. So, I like that, I don’t like having yes men and yes women.

ABOUT FREEDYM

Dan: I agree. So, Ryan tell us a little bit about Freedym, and if people want to learn a bit more information about that, and maybe just tell us a little more about who the membership site is for.

Ryan: It’s really for anyone who wants to learn how to build an online business. But in a real way without being cheesy or sleazy or hypey. It is like Netflix, where there’s well over 1000 hours of training now. We’ve taken our live events Freedym Fest, put all the videos on there. I’ve done $5000 events and courses; we took all those recordings and put them in there. And we update it every day, and we have lots and lots of real case studies, real people. Not necessarily making millions. I have one of my members, he launched a fitness membership site and at 27 a month and the first day he had 50 people. Ok, is he rich now? No, but it’s a great start. So, because he’s my member I said, “Can you share?” And he’s like, “Absolutely Ryan, I’ll do anything for you.”

So, we get on, and we record and see how we did it. A lot of real stuff. And the difference is too, there’s no upsells. There’s a lot of membership sites– cos it’s only a buck a day. $30–a lot of membership sites are like, “Oh and then you’ve got to get them in the super funnel and you have 15 staff on mastermind and for $50,000 you can spoon with Ryan.” You know, all this stuff. Just: it’s $30 you get everything. Here you go. Have at it. No upsells, none of that stuff. And we have a private community, so thousands of members in there, everyone supports each other, it’s just good people. And if you’re a jerk you’re not going to join. But if you are, and I see it, you’re gone. I don’t need your $30. So we say, “You’re cancelled, here’s your refund, we wish you well, this isn’t for you.” Because I don’t want to affect that community.

Dan: No bad apple.

Ryan: No. I have no patience or tolerance for that. So, that’s what it is. It really is one place you get everything; from membership sites, to traffic, to big ticket coaching stuff, to e-books to kindle, to subscription boxes. And because it’s updated every single day, whatever the newest stuff is, we’re going to get it for you. And we’re in the forum 24 hours a day answering questions. So, that’s what it is, I wanted something that I feel really good about. So, you don’t have to pay me $1000 an hour, like. here you go.

Dan: Amazing value. And can you give us the url again?

Ryan: It’s very simple. I’m not even going to do any special squeeze pages, it’s just Freedym.com. Check it out, I actually do a tour so you can see inside the site, it’s completely transparent. You can see what you have. Yea, Freedym, f-r-e-e-d-y-m. com. Come on in. And by the way, I know people are scared to join memberships because they are like, “Oh I tried to cancel and I got the run-around.”

Dan: And you’ve got to 10 ten people.

Ryan: Yea, you’ve got to call between the hours of 8 and 8:10. Ours is, you literally log in, you click my account, and cancel. And you’ll never even have to talk to us. So, there you go. I’ve been here for a long time; I’m not going anywhere. I love this, this is my legacy, and we’re growing the brand. We’re going to be doing some cool things. We did Freedym Fest event, we’re looking to do a print magazine, we’ve got some really cool things coming.

Dan: Well, Ryan thank you so much for inspiring us today with your amazing story and insights, and sharing your thoughts. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

Ryan: It is my pleasure. So, part one is now over let’s do part two, come on!

Dan: Part two let’s do it! I’ll make sure I include the url on the page, as well on Shoulders of Titans, but thank you so much, I appreciate it buddy.

Ryan: Thanks for having me.