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Isaac Mostovicz

Shoulders Of Titans Interview with Dr. Isaac Mostovicz:

Dan: Welcome to another episode of Shoulders of Titans, this is Dan Lok. Today, I am very excited, I have the privilege of introducing to you another titan. A former CEO, an expert on luxury market, also someone that knows a lot about the diamond industry. It’s also someone I’ve wanted to connect with for a long time, I’m so glad to finally have him. Dr. Isaac, Welcome to the show.

Isaac: Hi, how are you?

Dan: Dr. Isaac maybe before we get into questions, share with us a little bit about your background. How did you get into what you do today?

Isaac: Getting into what I do today was easy, getting in. I was invited to join one of the leading companies in Antwerp, Belgium. It was a diamond creation plant, where I became a partner, later I managed the nicest factory in the world. We were doing pioneering work because polishing diamonds changed tremendously in the 1980’s. I was credited with being the pioneer of this polishing evolution. As I was working, and I started to look at the retail business I came with many questions. I was green to the business, I was still in the factory, still polishing, still learning my way. I asked one simple question, I understand how I have to sell my diamonds, if I sell them for 200 weeks of profit but when somebody goes and buys a diamond for his wife, how does he value that diamond? How does he know the price is right? How does he know what kind of price to pay for it? He’s not going to sell it, so he is at the mercy of the jeweler to find out what is going on. I don’t buy the fact that the consumer is dumb, consumers know exactly what they want. Maybe they don’t know how to express themselves, which is fine, but they know what they want.

So, I started to look around, these kind of questions really started to bother me. What happens at the retail level? So, it started when I opened my office in Japan, we expanded and I opened the office in Japan. Japan’s business was starting to blow up around 1985 and I opened an office over there. Then somehow, somewhere we decided to address the retail market. So, I went to Japan visiting my repeat customers, looking how they treat their clients. Japan is kind of a reserved society, people keep things to themselves, they are very private. So, I couldn’t see much and I was wondering “How do they buy? What kind of interaction goes on between the retailer and the customer?”.

I had one client and friend, he was the only one who I saw was treating his customers in a special way, in a different way. He was selling a diamond with respect. So, when we moved to America in about 1997, I opened another office in America. That office catered only a little business, and I was very upset with the way people were treating the customers. One thing I learned from my clients, when I discussed with them how to market? How to speak to the customer? What to discuss with the customer? A guy told me, “did you ever stand behind the counter?”. Which was kind of strange because, me in my position as CEO of a large manufacturing plant and standing behind the counter selling diamonds? He was right, if I want to understand what happens, I had to stand behind the counter. So, every year for about 2-3 weeks, I stood behind the counter and worked with the customers. It just helped so much in understanding what was happening.

Dan: So, you kind of wanted to understand what was happening on the ground level.

Isaac: Yes, I wanted to understand what their interactions are. I also started to ask questions, I found out that not only did the industry not have the answers, the industry didn’t even think these questions were valid.

Dan: Now Dr. Isaac, I’m curious. When you were working behind the counter, do the customers know you’re the CEO?

Isaac: Yeah, I was introduced as the supplier of the store coming from Belgium, and I told the customers I would like to talk to them, I would like to discuss with them, to understand how the customers make choices, and why it’s important to them. You know, one of the simple questions that I used to ask was “why did you decide to propose?”. I think that my customers were furious because they thought that I was questioning their choices. I told them “I’m not going to question it, I just want to understand how your choice was made?”. This set the ground for my academic research because I couldn’t find answers in the industry.

To be honest, the academia doesn’t offer too much knowledge about luxury either. Definitely not about diamonds, nothing much about luxury at all unless you know where to look for the answers. For example, I figured out the psychology behind luxury. I found out that we have two opposing theories that are sort of interlinked, but two opposing theories. So, both theories are valid but you either choose one theory or the other. So, I contacted one of guy, Tom Pushinski, and I said “listen, I’m not a psychologist, but I figured out that what you do is very related to what I’m researching. I’m researching luxury, and what you do has a lot of implications to what I’m researching”. He said he didn’t mind helping me but to be careful because the other party of theorist will get furious if they find out you are using this theory for luxury because it would make their theory cheap.

Dan: They want to keep the theory to themselves and they don’t want it out in the public?

Isaac: No, luxury marketing sounds cheap for academia. So, you have to look, you have to find out research that was supposedly irrelevant and say “here, its 100% relevant, you just have to apply it”. This opens the eyes, and what happened was that I started to finally understand what luxury was about and how to treat the customer.

Dan: Share with us, before going into the two theories. I was to circle back to that. Share with us how is selling luxury from selling other typical items?

Isaac: Okay, here you may have fallen into a trap. Which is fine, an honest mistake. People think about luxury as luxury products. Luxury is not about products but about perceptions. If I try to define what luxury does, because you can’t define what luxury is actually as a perception. But what luxury does is actually overspending needlessly.

Dan: Okay this is profound, luxury is overspending needlessly.

Isaac: Luxury is something that you don’t need.

Dan: Okay I understand, it’s not a necessity.

Isaac: You spend money on it, you overspend money on something that you don’t need. Now is sounds negative but it’s wrong because that’s what we are doing all the time, 90% of the time, 100% of the time, that’s what we are doing in our life. It doesn’t matter if we spend money, if we spend time, if we spend energy, people are going over the Himalayas spending months and years preparing themselves. I’m not talking about the money or the energy that are spending but the time, this is luxury. What happens if you don’t go over the Himalayas? You really don’t need it.

Dan: And it doesn’t feel good, it’s not an easy thing.

Isaac: But you want it, you want to express yourself. So, you express yourself in the most beautiful way. You put everything you have into it. Same thing with luxury, if you don’t need a luxury car for example. You don’t need a Ferrari, you can drive a small Toyota, you can get to the same place, maybe even quicker because of traffic jam. But people say, “I want my Ferrari” and you ask “why?”. They want to overspend on that Ferrari because they want to express something, and they want to express that this is important for them. It is our job to understand what it is that’s behind that desire. Owning the Ferrari is an expression of something very deep inside us, something we can even explain in words easily.

Dan: So, what are those emotions we are trying to express?

Isaac: Usually, if you can get as close as possible to understanding what luxury is about, it is about enhancing self-esteem. It is not showing off, it’s not about behaving crazily, it’s about enhancing one’s self-esteem. Somebody wants to feel like “I am somebody, I am great”, so they go and spend on luxury. Now, spending on luxury can be manifested in many ways. For example, if somebody is upset, let’s say the boss yelled at the employee and she felt so frustrated and feeling like she’s nobody. She decided to bail out, take the day off and going on a spending spree. She might indulge in chocolate, she’s going do something just to enhance her self-esteem because it was so low, it was kind of like a knock out and she was on the floor and now she wants to raise herself up so she has indulged in luxury. Now it depends, chocolate you can eat every day. A Ferrari to buy every day is a little bit more complicated, even if you have the means.

So, people have all kinds of variety and people know exactly what, and how, and when to indulge themselves in luxury. There is something very interesting, this professor passed away and I still remember him form 40-50 years ago and we went on a trip. He was an Israeli biologist, and he was very famous for what he did on his trips. So, he had what he called the “handicapped event”, what happened is if for example I want to show a commitment I will destroy assets to show I’m committed to something. For example, if you’re a peacock and a peacock want to show off to all of the other females that he is the strongest peacock around. What the peacock does is open his tail and he’s saying, “I’m so strong, I can allow myself to waste hormones to grow such a great tail”. Which is a liability because it’s very heavy and prevents me from walking freely.

Now this is a biological explanation, but we do it all the time. For example, spending quality time with our children. What it means is that I’m a very busy person, I don’t have time to take out of work, but I’ll take 1-2 hours out of my times to spend with them and I don’t want to hear anything else because I love my children so much I’m going to spend time with them. It’s the time which is very valuable to us, a valuable asset to us and spent it with them. Now, if somebody for example spent on something which is extremely expensive, like a car, a private jet, a yacht, a luxury hotel. This person will take a suite with five bedrooms but he can only sleep in one bed. However, he’s not stupid, this person has a certain declaration to say, “I’m so strong, that I can afford to waste this money uselessly”. He gains nothing from the fact that there are five bedrooms, he can only sleep in one bed, and if he is busy he might not sleep in that bed either. But he is showing that he is strong, it’s a message that we set for ourselves.

Dan: That’s interesting, so talk to us about the two theories. I want to make sure we get to those.

Isaac: The two theories are what I call the two world views. It’s how people see their world. We have those people for example who will are looking for affiliation. They want to be good members, or the top guys in their society, the top of the social pyramid. All of this person’s activities are to get respect from his peers, and it’s not something negative. To the contrary, it’s something that motivates him. The other theory is the other people who are kind of individuals. They are looking for something, “they say okay, here’s a challenge I want something that goes beyond it”. The interesting way I treat my diamond customers is it’s not what they say, but how they say it. For example, they will talk about expensiveness, they want an expensive diamond. I ask, what do you mean by an expensive diamond? So, they will tell you an expensive type is beyond my budget.

For the first theory people, expensive means a lot of money. We are talking about two different types of people. Now I’m talking about luxury, but I use it in other businesses as well. I remember giving a lecture at university, I was the presenting lecturer for a few years. I gave a lecture about luxury and that evening my colleagues gave invited me to dinner. I met the people that I knew from academia but were not in marketing, they were in management. I remember a gentleman asked me what my lecture was about and I said I talked about luxury. “So, what did you tell them about luxury?” He asked. I said, “you know what, describe to me what luxury is for you”. He started to describe for me a yacht that he doesn’t have, so you can imagine how long he went on describing a yacht that he doesn’t have. I said “listen, I know how you run your business on corporate social responsibility, I know when they ask you for a plan you hate it because once you think about your plan, the next step after you present you plan for approval, is not to follow your plan and do something else”. He smiles, and then I told him “you are not looking for the best solution because you know there are many solutions to your problem”. He responds that I’m using black magic, but I said, “no but luxury is about interpretation, so I know how you interpret yourself”. It doesn’t matter if you’re doing it with luxury, or you’re doing it with management because management is also interpretation, it’s not about logic it’s about emotion. So, once he told me how he behaves in one field, I know how he behaves in another field.

Dan: Now, as you share the two world views, I’m just thinking about myself. What if I’m a little bit of both?

Isaac: You can’t, you can’t hold a stick on both ends. Definitely not. I didn’t pay too much attention to how you express your ideas, so I can’t tell you right now.

Dan: But I think I’m leaning towards the first one, being a good member of society and gaining respect. I think more towards that.

Isaac: Let me share something with you from academia debates. You have these two groups and there’s psychological theories, dynamic theories, today we have three but the third one in my opinion is not valid yet. Now, an article appeared in the academic journal and those who are looking for affiliation say “yes, there is something in common with us. There is something that links us”. There is something about the commonality in those two theories because they are linked somehow. The other party says “no, no, no, we are completely different”. Now they say the same thing, but one sees the different between the two theories while the other sees how the two are linked together. So, you are inclined to say, “maybe I feel a closeness to the other world view than this one”. Let me as you a question, clothing for example. Can you think about a piece of clothing that you would consider luxury?

Dan: Yes, I would say most of my suits are luxury.

Isaac: Oh suits, excellent. What makes your suit luxury? If I look at your suit, can you pick out one or two attributes that make your suit luxury?

Dan: I would say the cutting, the fitting of it and the material. A lot of brands don’t fit me, only certain brands fit me. I would like it to be different sometimes, not common and not too boring, not like everybody else. I want something with a touch of uniqueness.

Isaac: So, you consider difference. Some people will relate it to the material. Some people with relate it to the cut, the workmanship. Now nobody would relate it to both. For example, I remember one of my earliest interviews when I started to look into this; I asked someone “what is luxury for you?”. He told me Cuban cigars. So, I asked them, what is so special about Cuban cigars that makes them luxury? He said, “Cuban cigars are hand rolled”. This is not important, because for him the fact that the human skill, like the workmanship on the cigar is not part of the luxury view. He mentioned it but this is not what makes them luxury, but he said “no, no, no, this is not what makes them luxury”. The other parts is what makes the cigar luxury, but not this. So, it’s fun to start to talk to people and try to figure out what they are really looking for. When I ask them about diamonds, and the son talks about the diamond, how it should be bright, and how the colors should be this way, and the shape to be this way. This is one type of people, and the other type of people is what the diamonds mean to them. They say, “this makes me happy, this makes me this or that”. This is a completely different person. Now, when we have to treat these people, we have to treat them differently.

Dan: It almost sounds like the one describing the emotions is how the thing makes them feel.

Isaac: They both describe emotion. We have to be careful, and this is something that might help people anywhere when we do marketing and negotiate. For example, when someone says I want to have a red car, I want to have a diamond this size, they are not talking about themselves they are talking about the product. They are talking about the product and we have to link it to why it is important to them. We have to ask them why it is important to them. Then we can start to understand what is on their mind, because they are not aware. It’s not that we are going to teach them anything, we are just going to discover what they feel subconsciously. We are going to check their subconscious mind for a little bit and it’s very important in any product, in any sale, in any interaction when someone says, “I want this”. You have to ask them “why do they want it? Why is it important for them?”. My children, when I learned this process, they automatically when someone says something, my children automatically know I was going to say, “why is it important for you?”. We always ask why it is important for them over and over until we reach the right level, until we understand the real link between what they really want and how they express themselves with a certain product.

Dan: Okay, so for someone listening to this, I want to make sure that we talk about the theories. It’s very interesting because it makes me look at my behavior and my motive and what motivates me in different ways. Thank you for sharing that. So, let’s say for marketers and entrepreneurs, now we understand that people buy because they want to enhance their self-esteem. Luxury is not just about the certain brand, it’s about over spending needlessly. It’s about using extra, additional energy, money resources that we don’t necessarily need to do, we do it to feel something different. I like the analogy that we get knocked down and we want to bring ourselves up again. To purchase, when we buy that Starbucks coffee, it makes us feel a little bit better about ourselves. So how can we apply this in terms of strategy and tactics in our day to day business?

Isaac: I’ll give you one answer as a start, later on of course ill teach you more of the structure. One thing is don’t buy people at face value. If somebody comes to you and you own a bakery, somebody comes to you and asks for bread, don’t ask him which bread he want because it won’t work. Ask him why he needs the bread? Because the point to a product is a solution, but you have to understand that solution. Why is it important for them? When you start to understand why it is important for them you start to see their world view and you can give them good advice. Now two things, first you give them excellent advice. Advice that’s really relevant to their deep needs, to needs that they can’t even express.

Dan: things that they might not even be aware of these needs.

Isaac: I wouldn’t say not even aware, they just can’t express it. It is in us, you just provoke it and its in their but they say, “I don’t know how to explain it”. If you start to shake that value a little bit, they feel very grateful when you offer them something. Now, there’s another thing. If I sell you bread, I sold you a product but then I’m in competition with the rest of the world. If I didn’t sell you bread, if I just satisfied your deepest need, how much are you going to pay for it?

Dan: Much much more.

Isaac: That’s why luxury is so expensive. That’s where the luxury is making profit margins. Now, ask me why do we have to do all of this on expensive products? That’s how Starbucks managed to raise prices, from half a dollar and sell it for three and a half dollars, seven times the price. Just because they started to hit more on the deepest need of the customer. One thing, I’m not sure if it’s still valid today, but when they started Starbucks and they were asked, “how did you manage to find all these employees who always smile? How did you teach them to smile?”. He told them, “I don’t teach them, I interview them. When a candidate comes, if she smiles fine she’s in. If she doesn’t smile, I’m not hiring here”. Now, when you go to Starbucks coffee, maybe you’re on lunch break and there’s a whole line over there pushing. All the sudden you stand in front of the counter and someone smiles at you. That’s a lot, for this you’re ready to pay. You don’t pay for the coffee, you pay for the smile, you pay for the happiness, for the fact that someone relates to you as a human being, not as an ATM machine. It is not about your money, it’s about who you are because you don’t smile at an ATM machine, you smile at a person, so you are now a person. So, maybe today they don’t smile any more but here is where you can start to make profit margins. It doesn’t matter what kind of product you are selling, because you are not selling product. You are treating the customer.

Dan: So, kind of the first thing we were talking about. We need to ask, find out, why they are buying and not just what they are buying. Then number two is you want to satisfy their deepest needs, satisfy their emotional needs that they don’t even know how to express right? And number three, like you said, once we know those needs, we need to think of what added value and things we can do beyond just the thing, or widget, that we are selling that can kind of sell the experience in a way.

Isaac: Yes, I’m going to ask those questions. It’s very simple, do what I did with you for example. We picked up a product, that’s what happens with a customer. They go and are looking for a certain product. Ask them for the attributes, what kind of attributes are you looking for in this product? What are you looking for in that product? For example, you want to buy bread, what are you looking for in the bread. It doesn’t matter what they say, “I like it fresh, soft, whole wheat, whatever”. Start to ask the question of “why is it important for you?” When you reach a certain level, if you exercise it. Don’t learn for me, learn for yourself and start to experience it. When you experience it you start to say, “okay, if this is what you’re looking for, how is it expressed in that bread? Are you now satisfied?” Because satisfaction is by finding exactly what the customer is looking for.

Now, you put a price 20-30% higher for example, charge more. What are they going to do? Go to the competition? Is the competition offering them something that relates to their needs? Their true needs? Their deep needs? So, you don’t have competition. You know what? Say you have 100,00 people listening to you and this podcast. Imagine those 100,000 people are from the same industry, and they are all buying my ideas. The one who is going to hit the true needs of the customer better is the one who is going to win. The one who is trying to do it, these are skills that you improve over time, it’s like wine it only improves over time. You become more professional, you are more attentive, more caring for the customer. So, that’s fine, you won’t have to give a discount, you can charge honest margins because you’re not charging for the product, you’re charging for what the customer really wants. Your trying to satisfy his deep needs. As an exercise, I do it with peanuts. I offer peanuts, one peanut each. Later on, I sell each peanut for ten dollars.

Now, say you’re selling peanuts for ten dollars. Nobody is that stupid, there is a reason behind it and they are happy to pay because I show them, I explain to them why it is this much. Now, let’s say you sell the peanuts for ten dollars. Okay, what are they going to do with it? They are not even going to eat it. They try to preserve it somehow, I propose to them they sink it in gold or silver so the peanut won’t deteriorate. They put it on the table, they destroyed the entire value of the peanut it’s not the peanut that’s broken. They just wasted ten dollars on a peanut they can’t even eat, they really learned a lesson, they really enjoyed it. They learned that they were willing to pay ten dollars for something and its true, it’s not that I did a miracle or black magic, it’s something that I can explain, that they can see, they can understand, they can relate to it. They say “okay, I am happy”. They are happy to have the is experience and to keep this memento on their table because they really enjoyed what they did

Dan: Very interesting because when you’re talking about price, I’ve done research and in my own experience, I’m interested to hear your perspective on when people pay a high price, okay? That there is certain part of their brain that releases a certain chemical that makes them enjoy that item more. Not because the item has changed, but the fact that they have paid more that the brain automatically….

Isaac: Its dopamine that causes it. Yeah, there’s another aspect to it too. When people ask you for a discount, they want to pay cheaper. I was with a client of mine a few years ago, and he calls me to the side and tells me “hey listen there is somebody here who wants to buy a diamond and wants to have a discount for the diamond”. Now I don’t care if you give the discount but it was my diamond. That means if he gives him a discount then the client comes back to me and he’s playing with my money.

Dan: You also don’t want the reputation out there that these diamonds are on discount.

Isaac: So, I went to the guy and I started to talk to him and I realized that he was one of the two types of people. He is looking for challenges.

Dan: So, he doesn’t actually need the discount, he just wanted to see what he could get.

Isaac: He wants a challenge. So, he tells me how he likes the diamond, he wants the diamond. So I told him “you are looking for a challenge? I’ll show you a challenge”. I took a mirror, I put it in front of his face, he didn’t know what I was talking about. I told him “challenge yourself”. He was there with his wife and I asked him “how deeper can you put your hand into your pocket and buy a nicer diamond?”.

Dan: Oh, I like that.

Isaac: Now, he is there with his wife. He has a budget of let’s say $10,000. If he came with $30,000 he would say “okay this guy is crazy” because he knows exactly how much he has in his bank. But if he says “$10,000 and not a penny more”, he wants to prove it, he won’t like it. That means he has to go a little bit higher. I managed to push him to $40,000.

Dan: So basically, you flipped the challenge. Instead of him low-balling you, you flipped the challenge and said “hey, let’s do it this way instead”.

Isaac: I didn’t buy him by his declaration. I bought him by what was behind his declaration. That means people don’t have to explain and spoon feed you what they are feeling, what is going on in their sub-conscious, they say something and you have to understand it. If you understand it, they you can say “if this is a game, let’s play it my way. If you don’t understand it, you’ll give a discount and when you give a discount the chances are that they wife will say “I don’t want it anymore”.

Dan: Yeah, they won’t like it.

Isaac: Yeah, she wants him to spend.

Dan: To show, to demonstrate to her that you’re willing to stretch a little bit even though you will have to work a little bit harder to maybe make that money back. Whatever it is but it’s that demonstration, that expression of love.

Isaac: I want to see the husband go to his wife with a beautiful diamond and say “honey, I got a great deal on this diamond, it was on discount”. It doesn’t work, but what happens is people panic, people don’t realize what is happening and you have to tell them to stop, and relax. Start to ask questions and figure out that we made tons of wrong perceptions. There is, I think it was Kenny, who is a psychologist. He said, “when you don’t understand something, ask the patient”.

Dan: Dr. Isaac, I’m also curious on your point of view. You have been in the luxury space for some nay years not, decades. How have you seen it change from back then to now? What has evolved? What has changed? Or maybe nothing has changed?

Isaac: A few things. As an example, I’ll look at two areas, I’ll look at diamonds and ill louis Vuitton because he was the first and the most successful in certain terms. In diamonds, in the 80’s, I think it was ’83 or ’84, the diamond industry was not in a good position. The B.S started to kind of balance the market and people were complaining. I remember a guy, he raised up and he said, “listen you don’t understand, we are not dealing with diamonds, this is out life”. The attraction, the fact that you really put yourself into this business, it’s not a business, it’s beyond a business. It’s something you invest all your emotion in, that you enjoy it, that you love it, that you were ready to suffer for it, was in the ‘80s and somehow it disappeared. It became a business as it is today, meaning it’s kind of cold, trying to make a killing, trying to make a price. Actually, the more you try the less successful you are.

Dan: Yes, I agree.

Isaac: Louis Vuitton was the same. Louis Vuitton in the early ‘80s was one boutique in Paris. One boutique in Paris, you went to this boutique and you could talk to the workers, to the owner. Those who were there could tell you stories about the creation, they could transmit their feelings. That means you didn’t buy a purse, and you didn’t buy a product, you bought an experience, you bought life, you bought stories. It was all emotion. Then, Louis Vuitton started to grow, they started to open branches all over the world. I was in Hong Kong recently, it was a Tuesday or a Wednesday, some day in the middle of the week. You had a line queued outside the shop because for example if they had five sales ladies, only five customers can be in the store at the same time, and the rest are queuing up in the street, in the middle of the day. So, they’re successful you might say, but when you go there and you talk to their sales ladies, they tell you that there is not emotion, it’s not there anymore.

Dan: That is very true. I just bought a Louis Vuitton wallet two years ago in Hong Kong. You describe to them what color you want right? You want leather? You want another material? This is what it looks like, would you like to touch it?

Isaac: Its “do you want this, or do you want that?”

Dan: Yeah

Isaac: It’s this product or that product

Dan: Exactly.

Isaac: Then what you want, why did you stop there in the first place? Don’t you have a wallet in your pocket? Why are you looking for this wallet? That’s fine I’m going to help you but let me first understand why all the sudden you went into the store looking for a wallet. You know, asking these kinds of questions is something no sales man would dare ask because he is afraid that you will walk out. You will say “actually you’re right, I don’t need it”. No, you don’t need it, you want it, but why?

Dan: Not that customer service is bad, the customer service is good. It’s just they don’t do what you are talking about, they don’t go deep.

Isaac: No, go deep. Go deep and raise prices by 5%, 10%, 20%, 100%. Its I sell you a wallet and I gave you a price and say, “the price is right for a Louis Vuitton wallet, I’m going to have it, to spend this money, and that’s it”. Actually, deep inside you wanted this wallet, but if I start to expose that it’s about you, it’s about your expression, about your feeling, about your values, about your life, about your history, about your future, about your price. The wallet is just an expression of all these. You know how much that expression is worth? Okay, then I’ll give you one wallet that will help you express yourself in such a beautiful way, such a big way, you can talk about your past, about your future, about your feelings, about your dreams, about your hopes, about your challenges that you are going to face, what motivates you, what your purpose in life is, all those kinds of things.

Dan: Fantastic.

Isaac: All those things, you know I’ll charge you $100, ill charge you $500. It doesn’t matter.

Dan: That’s true, I’m thinking back and if she would have done that I might have even walked away buying more things. I was just shopping, walking around, wasn’t even looking for a wallet. I was just like “oh that’s kind of nice”, if I think back and she would have asked those kinds of questions I might have bought shoes, bags, I don’t know.

Isaac: Yeah, she would come and say “hey, it’s not the wallet, its Louis Vuitton. Louis Vuitton suits you, it’s part of your life”.

Dan: Yeah, I’m a Louis Vuitton person then.

Isaac: It becomes part of your life. Then it’s not just the wallet. It’s the wallet and maybe a suit, maybe a bag, maybe a suitcase, maybe shoes. You’ll come out with a lot of stuff because you just want to express yourself and Louis Vuitton helps you with that. It not even the wallet, it’s the LV that written on the wallet.

Dan: Dr. Isaac, any final thoughts? And, maybe how can listeners find out more about you, or maybe go to your website.

Isaac: My website is now going through a transformation but the material is still there. There is a blog I started in 2005 writing articles, there is a lot of good material there. My website is but what I do extra for listeners is kind of advice. I want them to start working, so I give them a video. So, go to the site and download the podcast and there is a link to the video, hopefully this video and ask yourself questions and I’ll be happy to start a discussion with you. I’m not going to sell you anything anywhere. Of course, if someone wants to ask me for a consultancy or whatever, maybe they want to buy a diamond then okay give me a call. However, this is not what the video is for. The video is about asking questions, about reflection, about thinking “what am I going to do with my life? How am I going to improve? What are the hindrances that I have?”.

Dan: Perfect, I’ll make sure to include that in the show notes, the video link, and the link to your website so they can go and get information. Thank you so much for inspiring us with your story. I learned a lot and I’ll just be more reflective and self-aware of who I am, and who I serve, who I sell to. Dr. Isaac, you’re awesome, thank you so much.

Isaac: Thank you.